Matt Traum: 0:02

Welcome to the Aerophone Academy podcast with me, Matt Traum.

Alistair Parnell: 0:06

And I'm Alistair Parnell. Join us each month as we discuss the wonderful world of wind controllers and you get the very best information and answers to your questions.

Matt Traum: 0:18

The Aerophone Academy podcast is the source for accurate information on wind controllers, so make sure you subscribe to the podcast.

Alistair Parnell: 0:26

And while you're at it, why not check out www. isax. academy?

Matt Traum: 0:32

and patchmanmusic. com.

Alistair Parnell: 0:36

Welcome back everybody. We are now on to episode six, and in this one we're going to be looking at some brass emulations from various bits of gear. You might remember episode four we looked at the woodwind emulations and now we're looking at brass in this one. So we've got quite a lot to get through. We must make sure we introduce our co host, Matt Traum. Welcome, Matt, how are you?

Matt Traum: 1:06

Hey, I'm doing, great. Thanks, I am over the moon, as they say over there. This is because I'm a brass player, so this is something I really enjoy.

Matt Traum: 1:13

And hopefully I have some tips for everybody here.

Alistair Parnell: 1:14

This is more your patch than mine, but we've both got some demonstrations that we've been working on, as always in our podcast, there is material in these podcasts that you will not find anywhere else- not on YouTube, not on anywhere else. We always prepare some unique material for each podcast, so we hope you appreciate and enjoy that. Now, before we get into those sounds and talking about giving you some tips on how to make your brass emulations hopefully as good as they can be, we always have said that you are very welcome to send in your questions to Matt and I.

Alistair Parnell: 2:02

We did actually have a couple of questions that were sent in a few weeks ago and we'd like to cover those firstly. In fact, certainly the first one covers it's sort of brass related anyway. So this is from a listener. Please forgive me, I know I'm going to pronounce this wrong Niels Magelson, Magelson. I'm sorry if I've said that wrong. Anyway, thank you for your question. We are answering the question for you.

Alistair Parnell: 2:32

It says here that you are a beginner and your questions tend to be pretty basic. No such thing as basic questions. We all have basic questions and I'm sure there's a lot of people who want to know exactly the same thing. Now you've said that you have an EWI 5000 instrument and you're playing SWAM instruments with that, and you're saying that when you play the alto sax, you have no trouble getting vibrato using the bite sensor. However, when you're playing the trumpet, the bite sensor doesn't seem to work or respond and it's very hard to get much or any vibrato. Here's what we think the answer is. We think that's probably just down to a setting on SWAM sound. Is that right, Matt?

Matt Traum: 3:26

That's what I would think. Probably those are set a little bit differently out of the factory and you need to go in there If it's working with the woodwind, and then you know. I don't think you'd have to change anything on your controller, so it's probably in the receiving end.

Alistair Parnell: 3:39

And what I find is I mean the Audio Modeling company. They've been very good at setting up various presets for all sorts of different instruments, but they don't all work on every sound variation. I was just looking at one earlier today and I was finding that everything I played had portamento on it and it just seemed to be stuck on. Everything I played had portamento on it and it just seemed to be stuck on. And sometimes you've got to dig into the MIDI settings and just make sure things are how you want them to be. So I'm pretty sure the answer for that question for you there is that it will just be a setting inconsistency between the two. Have a dive into the settings in the MIDI settings in the SWAM and you should find there that there's possibly something that's limiting the amount of bend or vibrato that you've got in that particular instrument. Make the setting, save it as your own new patch, and you can even make that one the default patch if you want to. So that would be the answer there.

Alistair Parnell: 4:45

Then we've got a Michael Hagstad. Again. Forgive me if I've pronounced that wrong. Michael. Now you have an interesting question here. It says I recently acquired a Roland Integra 7. Like many sound modules. It is basically designed to use with keyboards. That's correct. Now you're asking what specific adjustments should be made system or specific sounds to make those sounds more EWI friendly, with continuous MIDI signals, breath control and use of various filters. This is right up your street, Matt. What would you suggest?

Matt Traum: 5:27

Well, it's definitely what I do, so unfortunately it's not a system thing. You have to go in and program every single sound to respond to breath. There's no shortcut for it other than, yeah, I guess you could send MIDI volume data from your wind controller, but that's really not the optimal way to do it because that's simply like turning a volume knob up and down. If you want to do it correctly, you've got to go in and program each sound to respond to breath with the filter and the amplifier and the pitch bend settings and things. You want to take off the velocity response. There's a lot of things you have to do and it's quite a bit of work. There's a lot of things you have to do and it's quite a bit of work.

Matt Traum: 6:05

Fortunately, I already offer two sound banks of 64 sounds each, so 128 sounds for the Integra 7 that are already set up to respond really great to breath, and it's designed for wind controller players. You load these two banks into your Integra 7, and you don't have to do anything other than send breath control data from your breath sensor, and so it makes it a lot easier. It's highly recommended. So if you want to check that out, I've got some audio demos on the website and just go to patchmanmusic. com and click on the Roland button on the left side there and that'll take you to a disc icon that you click on to hear the sound banks for the different Roland sound modules and select the Integra 7 and you're there and you'll see the two banks there that are ready for you if you'd like.

Alistair Parnell: 6:50

And am I right in thinking that very often you know you also need perhaps a specific editor to be able to get deep into those settings. You probably can do it through the interface itself, right, but it's probably better if you've got a good editor that you can use, say on a computer or something. Is that the way you tend to do it?

Matt Traum: 7:13

Oh, if it's available. Certainly that helps quite a bit. You can see a lot more parameters at once. Usually with that, I think with the Integra, theoretically I think, you have access to everything from the front panel. But that's a nightmare trying to do it that way. You know you always have to tweak things for any specific module. So, yeah, check it out. Check out the audio demos there's two audio demos up there and goes through quite a bit of the sounds and that'll get you going.

Alistair Parnell: 7:37

I think everybody out there. If you're into wind controllers, you know obviously Matt and I are friends, but you really need to go and check out Matt's website for information that's there and also for the vast library of sounds that Matt's put together. If you've got a bit of kit, the chances are there may well be a sound pack for it and go ahead and listen to the demos and you can download them and you know it's great, really fantastic sounds. Uh, brilliantly written and brilliantly demonstrated. Oh, thank you, I appreciate that. Let's go on, shall we, and start to have a think about these brass emulations. We are again going to concentrate on on sort of three or four main pieces of equipment and, just as we said before in the woodwind emulations, these are by no means the only bits of equipment. If we try to include everything that's available out there, we'd have a podcast that takes all day to get through. So we are going to be concentrating on the VL70-m and some of you may be aware that Matt also does a special turbo chip for that module as well. We always enjoy the SWAM sounds from Audio Modeling. Of course, the AE-30 and the AE-20 have got their own built-in brass sounds as well. We're also going to look at some sounds from the XV.

Alistair Parnell: 9:14

Now, that's the Roland series of sound modules. Some of them have been around a little while, so things like the 2020, there's a 5050, there's a 5080, and there's a SonicCell as well. Those are potentially modules you might already have, or you can perhaps pick them up fairly cheaply online secondhand. Now and again Matt's got sound banks available for those. So what do you think, Matt shall? we look at some of the VL70-m sounds first? Do you want to just explain to everybody what that is, in case they don't realize what we're looking at?

Matt Traum: 9:52

Yeah, the VL70-m is just, I would say by far the most popular sound module with wind controller players because it's a half rack size, it's very small, it's got meters on the front display that show you the breath level and the pitch bend position and it's really easy to set up your wind controller with that module. It has a dedicated WX input on the front so it'll power any WX-style Yamaha wind controller so you don't have to use batteries or a power supply on the controller itself. It also has a MIDI input on the back so EWI players can use it or AE-30 players can use it with MIDI, and it's very popular. So many years ago I developed the TURBO Upgrade chip for it and it basically replaces all the factory sounds with much better sounds, much more responsive, more punchy, and it's super popular with wind controller players and breath controller players that play keyboard super popular with wind controller players and breath controller players that play keyboard. So I picked out a few of the brass sounds since this is a brass theme here today that we could play and you can just get an idea what they sound like coming right off the VL70-m TURBO chip.

Matt Traum: 11:01

Okay, so the first one is called Lead Trumpet. It's patch number five, bank one. Okay, so the first one is called lead trumpet.

Speaker 4: 11:10

It's patch number five, bank one, and this one is like a wah muted trumpet. This is number nine.

Matt Traum: 11:21

And this one's the piccolo trumpet, number 13. This actually makes a good trumpet if a little tip for people that have the turbo chip pitch it down an octave and I find it to be a very nice clean trumpet sound. And here's a forte horn, number 28.

Speaker 4: 11:54

And number 31.

Matt Traum: 11:56

Euphonium. A lot of people tell me this is the best tuba they've ever played.

Matt Traum: 12:11

I have a friend here in Cleveland that plays in a very well-known polka band, and he uses his WX5 with the VL70-m TURBO and he plays tuba parts on this.

Matt Traum: 12:17

So on a lot of these brass sounds and also the woodwind sounds I used, if you send it controller number four, which is the foot pedal controller, cc number four, it'll add a growl effect to a lot of these sounds. So that's what you're hearing on that tuba.

Alistair Parnell: 12:51

What we're listening to with well, most of the demos that you can bet that then in an ensemble situation. So either if you're doing a kind of multi-track recording or playing it live in an ensemble, I do think then you get the sound that you don't question the sound. You know. You, like you're talking about that tuba sound. If you're playing that in a group and people are just playing along with that, I think nobody's going to question the sound. You know, like you're talking about that tuba sound. If you're playing that in a group and people are just playing along with that, I think nobody's going to question the sound, they're just going to accept. Oh yeah, there's a tuba in there, right? So when you hear these as individual just sounds on their own, you're scrutinizing the sound to a high level. Do you understand what I mean, Matt?

Matt Traum: 13:21

Yeah, it's just part of the music. It's only one part of it. So when you plug it into the music it really makes sense. And I've been using the VL70-m TURBO for decades I believe, and I actually have two VL70-m TURBOs in my rig. So I like to layer.

Matt Traum: 13:39

Since the VL70-m only plays one note of a polyphony and one sound at a time, you have to have actually two modules to layer two different sounds.

Matt Traum: 13:47

But it's great to put a trumpet and a tenor sax together and pan it slightly left and right and each of those two sounds react differently. To pitch bend they might have a slightly different pitch bend range set or breath curve to them. So when you play them together they react a little bit differently from each other, just like two horn players playing, every horn player is a little bit different. So that's the magic of layering two different synthesizers together. Compared to, let's say, on a JV and you take a trumpet sample and a sax sample and you put them into a patch, into the same patch, and the breath is going to be the same going to them. It's almost like too good. There's not that imperfection that you get when you have two completely different modules layering. Yeah, no, that's when the magic happens, by the way, when you, when you layer sounds with wind controllers, that's when it starts to multiply and you get those, those magic combinations yes, I.

Alistair Parnell: 14:40

They've always been fantastic sounds from the vl and there's something very kind of organic about the sound that comes from that module. It feels like you're never going to quite get the same sound twice. It makes the sound really quite a personal thing rather than just everyone's going to sound the same.

Matt Traum: 14:56

That's correct. That's the magic of VL synthesis the physical modeling in that unit and also the VL1 and VL1M and the VL7. They're all physical modeling and only physical modeling can do this type of thing. If you listen to those demos we just played, you'll hear some riffs and fall-offs and rip-ups. That it's not a pitch bend, it's not a smooth little glide, it's actually ripping through the modes of the brass instrument and I have an example here that we can play. I just recorded this today. I just wanted to show people what's special about the VL and the physical modeling synthesis. All those sounds you just heard and all these other VL sounds are all synthesized, even though they do sound pretty realistic. So why don't you play this and listen to the fall-offs and the doits and you'll hear how it's actually following the series, the overtone series of a trumpet or any other brass instrument.

Alistair Parnell: 16:19

Fantastic. Yeah, what a sound.

Matt Traum: 16:21

That can't be done with samples. No, you know that's happening in real time. It's responding to the notes. I'm playing the breath level, the pitch bend. What I did on that that's just the trumpet right off the Turbo VL's number one patch and I just turned up the response to pitch bend all the way on on the embouchure parameter. So when I, when I was doing pitch bend down, pitch bend up, it'll, it'll just go up and down through those partials and do a realistic fall off. Now, if you can imagine having that trumpet on top of maybe a brass section or another couple of saxes or something, that's going to sound very realistic. So it's a special thing. Physical modeling is. I recommend that people try to get a VL in their rig, even if they have a sample based unit that they like.

Alistair Parnell: 17:06

It just adds a whole other dimension and so many Wind Synth players seem to have one of those in their rig and, like you say, sometimes more than one. It's still been very popular and it stood the test of time extremely well, that module. Now, Matt, you were also telling me about an experiment you were doing with a kind of embouchure thing. Would this be a good time to talk about that, because it's a similar subject, right?

Matt Traum: 17:30

I've been wanting to do this for a long time. I made a recording that demonstrates these modes of the trumpet that are in these physical models, if the model's programmed correctly, and I took great care to try to get them correct. What I'm doing in this next audio demo is I'm basically playing the VL70 as though it's a bugle. I'm not changing the octaves, I'm not changing any fingerings on my right hand, I'm just blowing into the instrument and I'm changing. There's an embouchure sensor on my MIDI EVI or the Berglund n EVI that I'm using, that it touches up against the lip and as I press that little metal plate up against my lip it sends midi controller number four, cc number four. And then I'm I'm taking that cc number four and in the um trumpet off the VL70. I went in and edited the embouchure to respond to cc number four, the embouchure parameter. So it's on full. I think it was 127 in the upper direction and maybe minus 80 in the lower down direction. So I'm just using my lip pressure. I'm playing this demo now.

Matt Traum: 18:39

It sounds horrific. I'm just trying to demonstrate that it's possible to do this because there have been brass players that say well, why don't you make a wind controller that just responds to embouchure, you know, like a real trumpet, because it's really hard to control electronically An actual trumpet, you know. It kind of locks into the modes when you're playing. It'll lock in naturally and the horn resonates at the octave and the fifth, and then the next octave and the third, so on as you go up. But I want to play this so you can hear Again. I'm not changing anything. No octaves, no fingering. This is all from embouchure pressure. I'm trying to play a bugle call there but it's nearly impossible to control it. But anyway, that's what it sounds like and that kind of demonstrates what the VL70 is all about as far as modeling the physical nature of an instrument, be it a brass instrument or woodwind or even some other things that it does guitars and things.

Alistair Parnell: 20:06

And I think it's interesting because, you know, going back to the last podcast with Tom Rhea, you know there was so much inspiration there that I found from, you know, people finding new and innovative ways of controlling a synthesizer right, and I mean that right there that's doing the same thing. It's like, well, people don't usually use a wind synth like that and it's kind of really interesting to see just what's possible with a bit of thought.

Matt Traum: 20:33

Yeah, it was an experiment and it's really interesting. Now I'm exaggerating quite a bit. You could use that sound, that trumpet, and not do it to the extreme. I was doing it. It was actually going an octave and a fourth. So I was starting on C. It would go down to the G, below that and go up a full octave above the C. But if you narrow down those parameters you can control it and get lip shakes and things that are realistic as you would get on an acoustic trumpet. In other words, if you play a C the C on the staff, and did a lip shake up, you'd go up to the natural E, natural. So that's a major third. But if you're starting on the E the upper space on the staff E, and you do a lip shake, it'll go up to the G, like it would on a trumpet, which is a minor third and same. You know it's. So it's following the actual mode overtones of the of the trumpet. It's. It's very interesting okay.

Alistair Parnell: 21:34

So that kind of covers, I think quite a lot of what we've uh thought about there for the turbo. We're also going to talk just a little bit about kind of playing techniques and things that might help people to better emulate, uh, brass sounds, because I think that's also very, very useful. For now, though, shall we look at the AE-30? Now, we've looked in the past at some of these sound packs that Matt's done for the Roland Cloud. Of course, the AE-30 and the AE-20 got tons of sounds in there as kind of preset sounds, but Matt's also written well, I think there are other now eight banks of sounds that you've written for the Roland Cloud. Is that right?

Matt Traum: 22:14

Correct, it's eight banks of sounds and there's 10 scenes in each bank.

Alistair Parnell: 22:18

Yeah, and I believe the examples we're listening to here are from the AEZ005. So they are the brass layers sound.

Matt Traum: 22:29

So these sounds are coming all coming out of an AE. I think I used an AE-30 on this when I recorded these demos. These are the demos that are up on the Roland Cloud and you can just get an idea what they sound like. If you have an AE-20 or AE-30, you can acquire these from the Roland Cloud. And I did eight banks. The first three are free. The remaining five, I believe, are ten dollars each. Um, and those are Roland products, available

Matt Traum: 24:58

The End. So on a lot of those you can hear the timbre kind of changes halfway through. I was using either the S1 switch or the S2 switch, which is on the AE-20 and AE-30 instruments. So it brings in an effect. In a lot of cases it's an octave below. It just adds a second layer.

Alistair Parnell: 25:10

Yeah, and it's very effective and I noticed you do that on quite a few of those examples. I think that that's one of the things that's perhaps nice and comfortable about the AE-20 and 30, you know, to kind of make those switches pretty easily without having any additional bit of kit or anything. You can just touch on the S1 or S2 key and produce that extra sound. So it's just another nice layer of contrast. So, yeah, they're all great sounds and plenty of kind of meaty brass sound and it's expressive. I can hear you kind of get some pitch bend in there and a little bit of vibrato now and then. So again, there's a tremendous amount for the musician to explore within the sound, and you know this is so important.

Alistair Parnell: 25:58

It's easy to say, ok, well, here's a sound and OK, this should sound like a trumpet or a trombone or whatever, but just like a player of that instrument has to work on that individual sound to get the very best from it. That's what we have to do. Whatever bit of kit, whatever sound module we're using, it takes quite a lot of time and patience if you really want to dig in and think about how you're going to get the best sound from that piece of equipment. And it might be a good time now, Matt, to just talk about this, because obviously one of the best ways you can do, one of the best things you can do to make a better emulation, is spend a lot of time listening. Right, you've got to listen to the play of those instruments so that you know the type of phrasing, the dynamics, the attacks, the kind of little special effects that they do. That's by far the best way that we're going to learn how to emulate these instruments.

Matt Traum: 26:58

Yeah, I agree. One thing I want to mention about quite a bit of the sounds I did for the Roland Cloud, for the AE-20 and AE-30 is. I also utilized the right-hand thumb pressure sensor on and AE-30 is. I also utilize the right-hand thumb pressure sensor on the AE-30. The 20 doesn't have it but the 30 does. So if you press on that you'll get a lot of growl effects and things which also add quite a bit of expression.

Matt Traum: 27:17

You can use it very subtly, you know. You don't have to crank it down and make it super obvious. Basically, you want to think about what you're trying to emulate and play in the comfortable range of that instrument. When you're playing a trumpet, there's a range of two octaves that are comfortable, maybe a little more than that, of course. Yeah, you can play another octave or two above that. You can do your Maynard Ferguson impressions, which is fine. But most trumpet players don't play up there and if they do, they can't play up there for very long. So play in the comfortable range and try not to go out of the range. Try to play in the proper style tonguing, phrasing, bending like a trumpet. Listen, listen to good trumpet players. Maybe start off with Chet Baker. You know he's a very accessible trumpet player. He's not too crazy when he plays.

Matt Traum: 28:06

But you know, know a good way to learn from him. Maybe, and some of the others, yeah, maybe, minimize the wide leaps.

Alistair Parnell: 28:14

Yes, trumpet players can do that, which is so important you know you need to make sure you're playing through either your speaker or headphones or whatever you're using, and have the volume set that you know. For me I'm tending towards. You only want to produce that full volume sound, for you know a very short amount of time that you're playing, because if you're not careful you're just going to be blowing too hard all the time and then you're going to lose a lot of the expressive quality of the sound.

Matt Traum: 28:56

We've said it in the past, you want to play also within the range, the dynamic range of the instrument. Wind controllers can only go up to a certain point and then the sensors just stop. So I would say I don't know, just as a general rough rule, you're going to play in maybe 60 to 80 of the range most of the time, as far as breath level, and then just peak out really when you want that punch and that pop. But, um, you know, make sure you're getting a decent signal into your sound module, but don't overblow, and then set your volume like Alistair says set your volume loud enough when you're in a comfortable range that it's loud, and then when you really blow, then it's going to really, really hit. So it's really important to have your amp set up and I think our next episode is going to be about performance, live performance, tips and things, and maybe we can touch on that a little bit more.

Alistair Parnell: 29:46

Yes, yes, we'll be looking at that in that episode. Now, Matt, you've also got another example for us of a trombone sound right. Can you tell us about this?

Matt Traum: 29:58

I've had a couple of people ask for trombone sounds and at some point I'll put something together for release. This is on the AE-30. It also will work on the AE-20. It's just a new trombone. I think it's pretty nice.

Alistair Parnell: 30:28

Yeah, really nice, Really nice Well thanks.

Matt Traum: 30:35

So with trombone sounds, of course you're going to use pitch bend a little more than you would with the trumpet. The trombone can theoretically bend seven half steps all the way from position one down to position seven and maybe even farther if they lip it down beyond that. So yeah, you can exaggerate pitch bending with trombones, maybe set your pitch bend range in the patch to maybe three half steps or maybe even a little more, but you don't want to overdo it, but use taste.

Alistair Parnell: 30:57

Yeah, and of course there's that distinctive kind of vibrato, and vibrato is something I find, coming from a woodwind side, that you know there's some differences there with the vibrato. I was trying to kind of put into some kind of context about what I think the brass vibrato sounds is. So I mean, this is just, you know, my kind of thinking on it. But generally speaking, vibrato on the brass sounds. I'd be interested what you think about this.

Alistair Parnell: 31:32

Matt, if you're playing a more classical kind of brass vibrato, it doesn't tend to be too wide, generally speaking, that's over the whole kind of dynamic range. So you know you don't want anything too, shall we say obvious with vibrato when you're doing a kind of dynamic range. So you know you don't want anything too, shall we say obvious with vibrato when you're doing a kind of classical sound. Now, whereas on the jazz sound it seems to me that they have quite a specific kind of way very often of using the jazz sound vibrato. They tend to be more perhaps in the kind of lower and mid range of volume. I mean, obviously you do get that screaming sound with the wide vibrato, but they tend to have a kind of wider vibrato, but it tends to only happen perhaps just at the very tail end of the note sometimes. Do you agree with that, Matt? That's what I hear brass players do often with the jazz sound.

Matt Traum: 32:28

Yeah, I think so. We, yeah, we, we talked about that a little bit with the woodwinds how they, uh, even sax players do that with jazz. They, they do their vibrato, the do, do, do, do, you know, right at the end of the note and there's a yeah, a little tremor at the end. Yes, yeah, but it's not like they don't go do-do-do-do, it's at the end, like you say, and that's kind of a jazz thing. And yeah, I would say classical trumpets, if you're doing a quarter tone, maybe at most for vibrato range, it is pretty subtle.

Matt Traum: 32:57

Yes, jazz can be more. Yeah, I would agree with that too. Trombone would be even a lot more. And also, trombone is really a lot of pitch modulation, you know, because they have the slide, yes, whereas with the trumpets it's more the lips are doing the pitch change. So you're getting more of a timbre change as you change pitch also, yeah, yeah, it'll be like a flute doing vibrato is not a whole lot of pitch modulation, it's more timbre. And you know, breath level and loudness. There's all kinds of difference, of differences in vibrato. But again.

Alistair Parnell: 33:28

I think this is really important to try and study. I remember I did oh, quite a long time ago. I did a demo online on YouTube. There's a version I did of the Schindler's List theme. I was actually using a Swam violin on that, but I was playing the AE-10. And I actually spent quite a lot of time.

Alistair Parnell: 33:48

Not only did I have the score in front of me, but I was listening to the original recording of Itzhak Perlman. Where does he slide? Between which two notes does he slide? Does he not slide here? Where does he add vibrato? And I literally put all of those details into the score to try to really understand this is exactly how a violinist would play that solo. And I think it's a good thing to do if you can get hold of a score or make some kind of notes and just listen really attentively. Is there vibrato here? Is there some kind of fall off or kind of gliding onto the note? Is there a lip bend happening? It's really good to start kind of almost cataloging what you can hear so that you can really concentrate on exactly what's coming out of a player's sound, and that's the way I've learned to try and do my emulations anyway.

Matt Traum: 34:41

That's great advice and also, like I think we mentioned in previous episodes, to record yourself and listen to yourself on playback absolutely yes, you know, because when you're, when you're, when you're doing it, it's different than when you're listening to it as a listener.

Matt Traum: 34:55

Be objective, as as you can, and if something's wrong or if it's too wide, then make the adjustments. Vibrato is a very uh specific and real particular thing. You know, you really have to tweak the speed and the depth and all these things to make it right, and it's easy, it's real easy to get it wrong.

Alistair Parnell: 35:18

So let's move on, and we've got a few short examples of the XV. This is the Roland format. Various sound modules are made of that. Matt's got a lot of patches for that bank, so do you want to just talk us through what you've got here for those solo sounds?

Matt Traum: 35:37

Okay, so yeah, these sounds. I just wanted to include a couple demos of the very popular Roland XV sound modules. There's a whole bunch of different models that I do support through the Patchman Music website ¶.

Matt Traum: 37:05

Thank you. So on those last few demos with the sections, you can hear how pitch bend is a little different on each of the instruments in the layer. So as I bend up to a note it's kind of a fatter sound, which to me sounds more realistic because every player bends a little bit differently. There's a different range to their bend between sax and trumpet and trombone.

Alistair Parnell: 37:21

Yeah, and we're going to do a few more. Section sounds a little later on towards the end of this episode, so I think now we're going to listen to a few examples of some W A W brass W brass brass sounds Okay.

Matt Traum: 37:43

Yeah, that'd be great. I know, Alistair, you did some SWAM demos. Did you want to start off with your, your brass, your trumpet, maybe?

Alistair Parnell: 37:50

I'll tell you what I'll I'll. I'll play you my short demos here, kind of from from the bottom up. Uh, as it were. Uh, this is the SWAM uh tuba. You might be familiar with the uh Tubby. The Tuba sound. Here we go, wow that's a nice tube.

Matt Traum: 38:39

I like how you did the vibrato and you played appropriately. Very well done.

Alistair Parnell: 38:45

Yeah, no, I quite enjoy it. You know, I sometimes get out these sounds and tuba is not an instrument or a sound that I would use that very, very often. I mean, I've certainly used it when I've been doing recordings in the digital audio workstation, but actually it's really quite fun, especially again if you listen to an example of one of those instruments and then you can really get quite carried away with these examples.

Speaker 4: 39:31

Here's a bit of French horn.

Alistair Parnell: 39:45

And, by the way, all of these are just coming straight out of the SWAM software. I'm not adding any extra reverb or anything, it's just exactly how it comes out that had great dynamic range in the timbre difference between quiet and loud.

Matt Traum: 40:02

Yes, tremendous, it was great. It's way more than just opening up a filter.

Alistair Parnell: 40:05

Yes, very fond of the Brandenburg concertos. Here's my little example of the piccolo trumpet and in case anyone's got perfect pitch, I think I'm right in saying I actually recorded that at 415 rather than 440 for pitch, because that's evidently the thing to do with the Baroque sound. But it just is another example of the sort of thing we can do with these emulations. Of course, if we want to play a Baroque pitch, we can do.

Matt Traum: 41:08

I love that.

Alistair Parnell: 41:10

And the other one I wanted to play for you here is as part of my Aerophone Basics course. This is with the iSAX Academy. What I've done is written tunes specifically to teach people certain fingerings, and this is one taken from the course. It's actually a little trumpet duet. Again, it uses the swam trumpets and it's called the Sideman because we're in this particular lesson on the iSax Academy we're talking about using the side key for B flat and you'll hear that sound being used quite a lot With all of my lessons on the iSax Academy. There are tunes that have been specially written so that you learn those notes in the best possible way, along with exercises to get you used to those fingerings first, and then every lesson has at least two or three tunes that you can utilize those fingerings with. You get PDFs to download, you get backing tracks to play along to, so the whole tutorial is there to teach you all of these notes. So this is one that I call the Sideman. It's just a 12 bar blues uh uh, that was fun, right.

Matt Traum: 42:59

So was that all SWAM?

Alistair Parnell: 43:01

Yeah, just two trumpets SWAM trumpets and then I used my keyboard and the drums from Logic. Yeah, and if you want to play tunes like that, you go and check out the iSax Academy, because we've got a great fund there. We do a regular monthly webinar as well, which people really enjoy. We talk about all sorts of things. So, yeah, that's the Swam Trumpets, and they are great fun to play. You mentioned earlier about some of your favourite trumpet players, Matt, and I'm sure you're aware of Chris Botti, right? Oh yeah, yeah, he's wonderful and, yeah, I love his playing and he inspired me to have a go at this tune. This is one of the tunes that he has recorded and this is actually a transcription of his version of this. This is a little bit of my One and only love. That's fantastic.

Matt Traum: 44:05

You know, you've got those little gliss notes in there, just like we trumpet players would do.

Matt Traum: 44:27

That's fantastic. You know, you've got those little gliss notes in there, just like we trumpet players would do, and the vibrato's just right and it's laid back. Yeah, are you sure you're not a trumpet player?

Alistair Parnell: 44:40

Again, it's just listening, isn't it? If you listen and pay attention to the way that they phrase things and, yeah, I just think it's great and in turn, I think we learn a tremendous amount that affects the playing of our own native instrument. You know the the way I've learned things about the way Chris Botti plays, that certainly had an effect on the way I play saxophone as well, because it it opens up a whole new sound world and, um, it's, it's just great fun and a great way of developing your own personal musicianship. You know, it's, it's, it's brilliant. I think it might be interesting if we spoke a little bit about the options that are available for brass players. We tend to concentrate mostly on players that use the kind of woodwind type fingering system, but we do, of course, have the brass fingering system, which I believe you were largely responsible for, on the Aerophones and some of the other wind controllers, and of course, there's the EVI as well. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Matt Traum: 45:50

Yeah, there are several options, believe it or not, for brass players.

Matt Traum: 45:54

For as far as hardware wind controllers to purchase and learn to play. I'll just say right off the top here if you're interested in this in more detail, just search Google for wind controller FAQ and I have an FAQ on the Patchman Music website and one of the top questions up there is you know what are my options for brass players? So you can go there and I give you more of a breakdown there. But as far as what's available on the market, there's several options. Most of the wind controllers that are made these days have a brass fingering option that you can select. Since they're digital instruments. You can say I want it to finger like a sax or I want it to finger like, maybe, a flute or brass and the brass fingering option. I did help Roland and I helped Akai and some other companies implement that same type of system on all their wind controllers so that if you learn the system, basically you'll be able to pick up any of those wind controllers and play each one of those without having to learn too much new technique. So, basically, even though you have a wind controller in your hand that looks like a woodwind, you flip the parameter over to brass style fingering and it'll play like an EVI or electronic valve instrument, which is the original name of the instrument that Nile Steiner designed back in the 1970s. And basically how that works is you use both hands to finger it your left hand you would select the octave, usually with your thumb you select the octave that you're going to play in, and then your index finger on your left hand you touch a key and that'll lower the pitch. A perfect fourth. And that's similar to the way a fourth valve works on a euphonium or a tuba, or the thumb trigger on a trombone, an f trombone. So that's the left hand and then the right hand. You just basically finger like a trumpet in the lower octave. So every octave is the same on these wind controllers. So you only have to learn 12 notes and then you've got it mastered. So the first uh, if you start on, let's say, c, on the uh on the staff, and you finger down. From there you go c, b, b, flat, a, a, flat, just like you would on a trumpet. Then for g you would uh, open up your right hand and then press the left hand index finger. So the pitch will go from a c to a g down. So there's your g and you hold the index finger down in your left hand and then your finger down from there with the right hand F, sharp, f, e, e, flat, d, d, flat and then for the next, the lower C there. Then you would lift your index finger up and select the next octave with your thumb and release all the keys on the right hand and now you're in the C in a new octave and you can do the same thing fingered down from there in a new octave. And you can do the same thing fingered down from there. I made a quick video on YouTube if you want to check it out. It's an actual video where I'm showing you what I mean, just using the most basic Roland Aerophone model, the AE-01. And if you do a search on YouTube for Matt Brass Aerophone, it'll pop up at the top on YouTube. It's an overview.

Matt Traum: 48:46

Of course there are other options for brass players. There's the EVI, which Nyle Steiner used to make. Those are kind of hard to find now. He handmade those. Those have a little canister in the left hand that you turn your thumb, rides on some rollers, a series of rollers that selects the octave. And again there's a touch sensor for the left hand index finger, more modern options. Johan Berglund in Sweden is making these instruments, the EVIs. Now he calls it the NuEVI, that's N-U-E-V-I. They're available in US from Patchmanmusic. com. If you like contact me on the website there I've got a Berglund page. They're a bit hard to obtain because they're handmade and they only come in so often. So you can contact me and I can try to help you out to acquire one of those.

Alistair Parnell: 49:35

Yeah, the Berglund instruments look incredible and a lot of the top players seem to be moving towards the Berglund. But am I right? There's no internal sounds, is that right? They're only external sounds.

Matt Traum: 49:47

That's correct. And the Berglund instruments, those are simply controllers and they have a MIDI, a legacy five pin MIDI output. They also have USB output and on some units, with the upgrades, you can get a wireless MIDI system with it. So there's three ways to output data from it. But yeah, there's no built in sound.

Speaker 3: 50:10

So you'd have to connect it up to an external, either hardware synthesizer or a soft synth running on your computer, to actually make sound with it.

Matt Traum: 50:16

So one of the most commonly asked questions that I get when somebody calls me looking to buy a wind controller is hey, I want to get a wind controller to play in my group. I want to be able to be a horn section. That's maybe the number one request and I always tell them you can do that to an extent, but it gets a little tricky if you wanted to try to do chords and sound like individual players. There are some options for generating chords, some intelligent diatonic harmony generators and things. Maybe we can talk a little bit about that.

Matt Traum: 50:53

Of course you can do octaves and unisons and have layered patches and create a nice kind of a full sound with multiple sounds layered. You might have a Bari sax and a trombone and then an alto and a tenor and a trumpet layered together, all playing in unison. That works great. I do that all the time. But if you wanted to play chords, there's a program called Divisimate that I know. Alistair, you have some experience working with that. Maybe you could chime in on that and tell us what that does and how. That's better than just a simple layered sound on a synthesizer.

Alistair Parnell: 51:19

Yeah, I just started playing around with this about six months ago. It's a piece of software that sits between the input. You really run this on a PC or a Mac. It's a piece of standalone software that sits between the input from your wind controller and then sends out information to a DAW so that, I believe, can be Logic or Ableton or Cubase, whichever one you use. Now what happens is you load in your sounds into Logic and in fact the company that make Divisimate, they produce templates for Logic and for Ableton. So when you load in that template it opens up a whole section of SWAM sounds.

Alistair Parnell: 52:10

Now here's the issue. Of course you need to own the SWAM sounds if you want to fully utilise that program. So it'll open up a full section of five saxophones, four trumpets, four trombones, so you've got like a whole kind of big band section. They make a separate template for orchestral pieces as well, but the one I've been using is the brass section. So what the Divisimate does is it receives your one note coming from your wind controller wind controller and then it very cleverly divides that sound and sends chord information out to the say, in this case logic. But what it's also doing is it's saying, okay, the first note of the chord, the top note of the chord, we want that to be on the trumpet one sound, and the second note of the chord, we want that to be on the trumpet two sound, and so on. And it also very cleverly makes the trumpet sounds that are in the swam instruments slightly different, because we don't just want copies of the same trumpet sound, we want there to be some slight differences and swam instruments offer that. And then there's a whole range of I think a hundred different presets. So you could have just four trombones playing or four trumpets playing, or you could have everybody playing, including the saxophones, or just a five-piece saxophone ensemble or whatever. And it's very clever.

Alistair Parnell: 53:44

There's all sorts of parameters to kind of humanise the sound. I've done a couple of demos that you can kind of hear. These are just very brief demos but just talking about the kind of humanising of the sound. If you listen to this trumpet demo, this is four trumpets. I'm just playing one note on the Aerophone, just sending one note, and then Divisimate is splitting that one note into a chord. But you can hear, if you listen carefully you can hear that not all the trumpets play at exactly the same time. There's a parameter where you can say, well all move exactly in time. You can make it do exactly in time if you want to, but it's actually more realistic if they don't quite match in time. And here's a section for trombones, and then here's a mixture of both the trombones and the trumpet. So again it's distributing the chord notes, and you can change the chord notes or the distribution of chords.

Alistair Parnell: 55:09

These are just some of the preset sounds that I'm demonstrating here. Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah, all the articulation comes out and the balance is nice. Hopefully you're getting some of the sound whatever you're listening to on the podcast, but there's also an audio spread. The panning position is very well thought out. It suggests you use this certain type of reverb which not only positions each instrument in the stereo field, but also in terms of the depth from the microphone from front to back. So there's a great deal of contrast in those sounds.

Matt Traum: 56:01

So I was curious if you're playing in a group and you have that song over the rainbow or whatever, and let's say it modulates from C to D, goes up a whole step, would you have to change a patch, or is there a way you can use a foot pedal to maybe select a new setting that goes to D?

Alistair Parnell: 56:16

Yeah, you can map a foot pedal or even a note on your Aerophone or whatever, if you wanted to whatever controller, and then, yes, you could change it into the new key. So it's absolutely amazing. It's a big program. I'm finding that because there's such a lot going on. Sometimes you get the odd hanging note there that you've got to be able to deal with, but the principle and the potential there is absolutely incredible. And it's one of those sounds, Matt, and I know you know what this is like. You put it on and you know, two hours later you're still messing around with it because it's just so much fun to play.

Matt Traum: 56:56

Oh yeah, I know, I know exactly what that's like. Now we should mention that the Aerophone AE-30 actually have intelligent harmony built in. In that case it's all. All the notes of the chord are the same sound, and whereas with this Divisi mate, you're sending only one note to the trumpet, only one note. You know, maybe a different chord note to the sax, different one of the trombone, different one of the bari sax, yeah, um, so there's a difference there, but it's uh, it's kind of cool that Roland had the foresight to add that feature built into the horn, absolutely and then, just as a very quick idea, this is what they call.

Alistair Parnell: 57:30

I think they call this a widespread chord and I've included the sax section in this as well. You can hear on the bottom end the bass trombone and the bari sax down at the bottom. It's just a kind of slowish moving chord thing. I think it demonstrates this spread of sound. You can get just playing one note at a time on your wind synthesizer. I'm getting a nice bit of baritone sax in my right ear. You know that spread of sound works really well in something like that. That sounds great.

Matt Traum: 58:14

Wow.

Alistair Parnell: 58:15

It's great fun, Matt. You did some other little demos with some other equipment. I've seen some kind of YouTube videos or something you did with some other harmonizing effects or whatever.

Matt Traum: 58:26

Yeah, I have a couple of videos that I'm looking at them now. Boy, it was 10 and 11 years ago that I posted these, but there's a couple of videos. I'll play a little bit of audio of each of these. So what I'm doing to create the harmony on this is I'm using basically an audio processor, so I'm feeding it an audio signal of my whatever's coming out of my synthesizer. Generally you want to feed it a clean signal with not too much delay or reverb, because that'll tend to confuse the algorithm in it. So you send it one note of audio coming in and then it'll split it into up to maybe four notes, depending on what you're using. And you can tell again it's a diatonic slash intelligent type harmony. So I can say I'm in the key of D minor or E flat major or whatever, and it'll generate chords. Usually there's ways that you can split the notes. You want to have one above what you're putting in or all three below what you're putting in different options there. So this first one is called Patchman Music. Boss PS-6 Harmonist Wind Controller Demo. And I'm demoing a simple little. It's basically a guitar pedal called the Harmonist PS-6 by Boss. This just gives you a little idea what you can do with an audio harmonizer. Thank you.

Matt Traum: 1:00:18

I was experimenting with different voicings and things in that track and this next one. Here I'm using an Eventide Eclipse, which is a high-end audio processor, just an amazing piece of gear. If you're looking for incredible reverbs and pitch shifting and everything this one. I've got a custom setup that I created harmonizing, I think, four pitches and I'm controlling the chord value or the chord type with my foot pedal, and there's a foot pedal input on the back of this so I can select. Uh, you know, I might want to sustain four, or a minor or major, or, you know, a couple fourths stacked or whatever. So as I'm playing, I'm experimenting with chords. This is just a um off the cuff live thing, it's. It's uh. If you want to check it out on YouTube, it's Matt James with Eventide, Eclipse and custom Steiner phone.

Speaker 4: 1:01:09

transcript Emily Beynon.

Matt Traum: 1:02:26

So what do you think of those Using an audio? It's not the same as splitting it into four distinct timbres, but it still works pretty well, yeah really really well.

Alistair Parnell: 1:02:37

Well, I think that just about wraps it up. It's been another fascinating episode. We hope everyone's enjoyed all that information and all those demonstrations. And don't forget, if you want to learn a little bit more about your Aerophone either if you're a complete beginner or if you're a more advanced player, but you need to know all the ins and outs of how to use the AE-20 or AE-30, you'd be very welcome to come and join us at the isaxacademy. That's the website, wwwisaxacademy. There are several courses there where you can learn to be the best Aerophone player that you can be.

Matt Traum: 1:03:20

And I would like to mention, since we talked so much about the VL70 TURBO. Those modules are long out of production but I always have them in stock. I refurbish them, I install the Patchman Music Turbo chip in them and make sure everything's working perfectly. I've always got them available on the patchmanmusiccom website under the used gear section. As far as the modules are available in the US to people, I don't ship hardware outside the US. But if you're outside the US anywhere in the world and have a VL70, I'm happy to send you the turbo upgrade chip. I can do that because that's a software item. So either way, PatchmanMusiccom for that Also.

Matt Traum: 1:03:58

We mentioned SWAM and all the SWAM instruments for the Mac and PC are available through Patchman Music as well. I'm one of the top dealers for those as well. I am one of the top dealers for those and anywhere in the world, if you'd like to pick up any of those Mac or PC versions of the SWAM instruments, I will give you the best price possible. I can usually beat any price that's out there. And as far as wind controller sound banks, if anybody has hardware synths laying around or even software synths, I have a whole series of wind controller, special sound banks that have been designed to respond to breath, and if you want to see what's available from Patchman Music, just type in wind controller sound banks into Google and it'll pop up at the top and you can see all the options that are available for all kinds of synthesizers. Alistair, would you like to maybe mention what's coming up in the next episode, or two?

Alistair Parnell: 1:04:50

I certainly would. So we're looking forward to episode seven, where we'll be talking about live performance tips. So we'll be talking about equipment like amplifiers and cabling and even stands that you might use and everything to do with a live performance the sort of setup you might use and everything to do with a with a live performance as the sort of setup you might use, the, the way you might use even foot pedals or all sorts of equipment, something that I'm sure everybody is going to be interested in. So I think we've given our listeners a tremendous amount uh to look, uh to look into this.

Alistair Parnell: 1:05:28

Matt, and let's remind everybody as well, if you do have a question for us, we do have an email address for this podcast and you've got a selection below. In fact, there's a new little link below, if you look in the podcast details, where you can send us a message, either as a voicemail, or there's a new link down there where you can send us a kind of message directly through the podcast interface as well. So please send us any questions that you have for our next episode, which we are always already looking forward to, Matt. Thanks again for your time and we'll see you in the next one. Thank you.